AI-generated transcript of MCHSBC Full Monthly

[Jenny Graham]: thumbs up. Okay, please be advised that there will be an in-person full building committee meeting of the Medford Comprehensive High School Building Committee on Monday, November 24th at 630 p.m. in the Medford High School Library and held via remote participation. This meeting will be recorded. The meeting can be viewed live on Medford Public Schools YouTube channel, through Medford Community Media on your local cable channel, which is Comcast nine, eight, or 22 and Verizon 43, 45, or 47. Participants can call or log in by using the following Zoom link, meeting ID 998-9473-8952. And I'm gonna call the roll. Jenny Graham here, Mayor Lungo-Koehn. Here. Dr. Galussi here, Marta Cabral. Libby Brown here. Marissa Desmond. Maria Dorsey. Brian Hilliard here. Tracy Keene absent. Emily Lazzaro here. Nicole Morell here. Aaron Lapate here. Luke Preissner. Joan Bowen here.

[Maria D'Orsi]: Ken Lord here.

[Jenny Graham]: Bob Dickinson.

[Kimberly Talbot]: No.

[Jenny Graham]: Fiona Maxwell.

[Kimberly Talbot]: Fiona's on vacation.

[Jenny Graham]: Got it. Uh, we'll put the Sally here. Chad Fallon here. Lori Hodgkin here. John McLaughlin here. Oliver. So yeah. Philip Santos. See bill yet. Lisa Miller and Dr. Talbot. So that is 12 in the affirmative, 12 present, three absent. And then we had our non-voting members, two absent. Got it. Okay. We have a quorum. So we're ready to go. The first item on our agenda is approval of the minutes. Is there a motion to approve the minutes? Motion approved by Jones and Luke. Okay, I will call the roll. Jenny Graham, yes. Mayor Longo Kearns. Yes. Dr. Blusey, yes. Marta Cabral, yes. Libby Brown, yes. Marissa Desmond, absent. Maria Dorsey, absent. Brian Hilliard, yes. Tracy Keene, absent. Emily Lazzaro. Yes. Nicole Morell. Yes. Erin Olapade. Yes. Luke Preissner.

[Unidentified]: Yes.

[Jenny Graham]: Joan Bowen. Yes. And Ken Lord. Yes. 12 in the affirmative, zero in the negative, three absent, and minutes are approved. Do we want to pull up the contract slide?

[Unidentified]: We are waiting. see intervention. You got it. I do. A question or something, right? Are you in the Zoom? No, I am not. Do you want me to get in the Zoom? Yeah, you can put it online.

[Jenny Graham]: Hang tight, everybody. We're just trying to get the presentation pulled up on the Zoom.

[Maria D'Orsi]: Good job, Matt.

[Unidentified]: Good.

[Maria D'Orsi]: Can you go back? We have to approve the invoices, right?

[Jenny Graham]: Yes. Okay.

[Adam Hurtubise]: Yeah.

[Jenny Graham]: So as we did in the last meeting, we have to approve. invoices for payment for left field. So this is the current invoice that is up for approval. So far just the left field invoice. Is there a motion to approve? Motion to approve. Motion to approve by Joan. Seconded by Libby. Thank you. I know this is like awkward and weird. Yes. You'll all get used to it. Okay. I'll call the roll. Jenny Graham. Yes. Mayor Lungo-Koehn. Yes. Dr. Galusi. Yes. Marta Cabral. Yes. Libby Brown. Yes. Marissa Desmond. Maria Dorsey is absent. Brian Hilliard. Yes. Tracy Keene is absent. Emily Lazzaro. Yes. Nicole Morell. Yes. Anna Lopate. Yes. Luke Prisner.

[Unidentified]: Yes.

[Jenny Graham]: Joan Bowen. Yes. Ken Lord. Yes. 12 in the affirmative, zero in the negative. great absent, the invoice is approved.

[Matt Gulino]: Yeah, this was just a very quick, very quick budget update. Not a ton of changes per se, since currently, at least up until tonight, it's just been the OPM's contract. But after we talk about the designer contract, we'll have a bit more costs committed to the budget, so we'll provide another update at the next meeting. But as of right now, pretty straightforward with just the OEM fees so far.

[Jenny Graham]: OK. So the next item on our agenda is to formally approve the contract with SMMA for the feasibility study services based on the designer selection process that we are at the end of. Um, you all should have received a copy of the contract. Um, as I mentioned in that email, the, the MS, the base MSBA contract, um, is not able to be modified by the city in any way. Um, and the task order is able to be modified by the city. And we went through several rounds of revision with SMMA to tune the scope of the project and the timing and the deliverable and all of that good stuff. Um, and SMMA has graciously been working full steam ahead, um, in anticipation of this vote. Um, but the city has the city and the mayor have not signed off on the contract just yet because they are looking for obviously the mayor's here, but looking for the support of this committee before executing the contract. And then that will go to, uh, to MSBA and they will do their end. And then this, um, picking the team phase will be officially leaked. Um, Meanwhile, you'll hear a lot in the coming slides and time about the feasibility study and all the work that we're doing there. So, but first we have to take a vote to approve SMA's contract. Are there any questions before we do that?

[Luke Preisner]: So this amount is not inclusive of the options to perform. I'll say over and above, perhaps that's the long-term melody, geothermal assessments and test wells and things like that. The amount we see does not include that.

[Jenny Graham]: Correct. That is correct. Those are optional services that we can employ during this process with a change order that would be voted on here. The reason it was not included is because based on the conversation that we had as we negotiated the deal, our need to do CM at risk and bring on a construction manager at some point during schematic design. they also have the capability to do those things and they may be the best people to do it. So we held off that work, not to say we're not doing the work, but to say, when we get to the point where we're ready to do the work, we need to figure out who the right person is to do the work. So it's just a timing and sequencing thing, but it is able to be exercised via contract amendment with SMMA if that's what we choose.

[Maria D'Orsi]: Any other questions?

[Jenny Graham]: Okay. Is there a motion to approve SMMA's contract?

[Unidentified]: So moved.

[Jenny Graham]: By Ken Lord. Seconded by? Second. Karen. I will call the roll. Jenny Graham. Yes. Mayor Lungo-Koehn. Yes. Dr. Galussi. Yes. Marta Cabral. Yes. Libby Brown. Yes. Marissa Desmond. Absent. Maria Dorsey is absent. Frank Hilliard. Yes. Tracy Keene. Absent. Emily Lazzaro. Yes. Nicole Morell? Yes. Aaron Olapade? Yes. Luke Freisner? Yes. Joan Bowen? Yes. Ken Lord? Yes. 12 in the affirmative, zero in the negative, three absent. The contract is approved. So they are all connected with you tomorrow and we'll move the ball forward. All right. Thank you all for your patience and for continuing to work really hard. I know you've been here since like seven o'clock this morning. So I hope you really appreciate it and look forward to the update. So onto the fun part of the meeting, we can talk a little bit about the progress that the team has been making, which is enormous. So I'm going to turn it over to left field and SMMA and you all can take it away. And then maybe just like stop in a couple of places. So if people have questions along the way, we can do that.

[Matt Gulino]: Yeah, I think first we'll touch on the placemats that we discussed at the last meeting. And then we'll talk a bit more about everything that we've been doing so far with the school and kind of next steps and highlighting some of the key milestones as we get ready for the PDP submission at the end of February. So, yeah.

[Kimberly Talbot]: Yeah, so for those of you who were in person last week, we did have around the table what we were calling placemats. Unfortunately, there was no food on the place. They were a means of engaging in writing and not necessarily verbally. And so we wanted to kind of report back on what we heard, you heard in writing say. And so we're starting with the hearts first. So the four prompts were hearts, you know, what do you love about the site or project, heart burns, self-explanatory. The other two were about why you volunteered and what your superpower is. But staying on hearts for a minute, and AI can only do so much via a word cloud. It did need to dig into the data itself a little bit. But obviously, building is featured prominently, not only as a noun, but as a verb. There was real interest in the task of this group in building community support, as you will understand that this will take up a vote and a lot of support from your community. And then, of course, the building itself and the excitement around that and what it can be and what it will be in a few years, a few short years. And then building sustainable, safe, comprehensive high school. Equity came up a lot of times with respect to space and people engage the space. Bells is obviously a big one here. It's positive, positive in terms of this incredible site that you have, your location, prospects to connect with the Fells through whatever happens at the building, whether it's all new, renovation, addition, et cetera. A lot of mentions of retaining the swimming pool, the gym, and some of the CTE spaces, and helping to advise on the development of this critical project for unique and diverse communities, so diversity came a lot as well. I'm gonna go to the next slide. So heartburns, repeated concern about making sure the community is kept tied into the process. Several mentions of traffic and access to the site came up. Fears about disrupting school operations while instruction happens. And again, that'll be dependent on where we land with the direction, design direction. Concerns about cost and budget. potential for having to value engineer things, like having to subtract out of a project that we built up. And then the fact that the MSBA spaces that they will participate in, should they be new spaces, will likely be smaller. So that also was mentioned a number of times, hence the space. And why did you volunteer? So a lot of love for MedBird, a lot of love for this community. One of them, what's best for your students and the community. Recognition that this building will be the flagship for the district. It's a community hub. It's a community building. One quote was the jewel in Medford's crown. Interest in contributing to making it happen and that it's so long overdue. So all of you giving your time to this effort is really being driven by predominantly those words and these notes. And then finally, talking about your superpowers. So, you know, what you feel you're bringing to the table and able to best contribute. Obviously, a lot of knowledge of the building, knowledge of building and design. We know the number of architects and engineers on this committee, knowledge of the community. Obviously, that's critically important experience with building coalitions to achieve the desired results. expertise in teaching and learning to be translated into new spaces. Again, educators, administrators, well familiar with how you teach here. And again, this concern about universal design and ensuring spaces work for all students, bringing that concern and making sure it stays top of mind. And so with that, I think, you want to go to the next slide? Oh, we're breaking. Yes. I'm going to try to recruit you to some advisory teams. So hold that thought. Go ahead, Matt.

[Matt Gulino]: Yeah. Sorry. We did just want to touch base quickly on schedule before in timeline, just to kind of bring everybody back to kind of where we are currently. I'm not going to spend a ton of time on this, but really just highlighting step one, which is what we're currently in the preliminary design program. uh, or PDP. Uh, the submission date for that is February 25th, 2026. Um, we do anticipate having, you know, information, uh, sent to the committee members to review kind of periodically over the next couple of months, just to prepare everybody for the final vote, uh, to get the PDP submitted, which will be on our February 23rd meeting. Um, the PDP review is, is by staff, uh, members only there's no board of directors meeting. They're really just kind of making sure that we have done our due diligence and making sure we've looked at all of the potential sites, you know, different options, base repair, ad reno, new build. And obviously a big part of everything we're doing right now is the educational envisioning and programming, which we'll obviously touch base on. So that's kind of, you know, where we are right now for PDP. As we get into, you know, the preferred schematic report later on, it's kind of refining. everything that we did in the PDP and narrowing down our options. We do anticipate submitting that June 25th of 2026. There would be a board of directors meeting there to essentially prove that preferred option. And then we would proceed into systematic design.

[Jenny Graham]: So Matt, can you, the February deliverable is specific to the educational plan. It is not a place where we're seeing the visuals of a building coming together and pushing something like that forward, right? Like this is the background of what is going to happen inside the building. Is that correct?

[Matt Gulino]: We'll have very high level blocks on a page to kind of understand what the footprint could potentially be for different options. It won't be like sectioned out into like classrooms and stuff like that quite yet. It's largely understanding what the square footage is Um, you know, to support that, that educational program. So yes, that is really kind of the cornerstone of what. The project is based off of, um, and, and where we focus on it heaviest, um, is during this PDP and PSR phase.

[Jenny Graham]: Okay. Thank you. That's really helpful. I just want to acknowledge that we actually have like members of the community in the room tonight, which is exciting. Thank you guys for coming. Um, and I just want to make sure that we're bringing everybody along the lingo, um, as we. that we're going to be talking about.

[Libby Brown]: As we chat, So, um, on that alternative options evaluation that mean they're looking at the options for like new construction renovation like that, So there'll be some. Yes important content and they're about design because it's going to talk about what it would look like great for these could look like, right? I would imagine that's. What we're gonna be seeing in that bullet point.

[Matt Rice]: It's two dimensional in terms of what we're doing.

[Matt Gulino]: The, the, yeah, the different options will be like, like Matt said, very two dimensional looking at, you know, general footprint, you know, if we, yeah, bubble diagrams.

[Libby Brown]: I don't mean to say like full design, but like big things.

[Matt Gulino]: Yes. Yes. Yeah. It will, you know, the options that we create during PDP, you know, will narrow down and the PSR phase. Um, but yes, we do, we will be looking at quite a few different options, um, at this phase, very high level.

[Luke Preisner]: Are there any ground rules for the options that we'll see? Because what we've learned in past meetings is that by statute, we have to see an option for code compliance, current building standards. We have to see an option for a renovation, which is not the same thing as code compliance, because you may be changing how many spaces you use. And then finally, a new build. I believe those three are required.

[Matt Gulino]: Yeah, an addition renovation fits into that reno category, but typically an addition renovation is also included in the option.

[Luke Preisner]: Great. So as a fourth option, I was going to bring up kind of a hybrid between renovation and rebuild. And so I think we have that to kind of anticipate. In terms of ground rules for presentation, you heard two-dimensional layouts. Could we expect estimates for cost per square foot as part of that presentation?

[Matt Gulino]: Yep. And so perfect segue into this next slide, which is the deliverables, one of which is a cost estimate, which is based off of a cost per square foot. Again, it's very high level, and it's largely meant for comparative reasons between all the different options. to understand where we are generally between each of the options. And we start to narrow down and understand costs on a square foot basis. But yes, a part of this PDP phase is an estimate portion as well.

[Luke Preisner]: And then the other key decision making criteria would be schedule. Would there be some schedule forecast associated with each of the options? or would they all be expected to just follow the same timeline?

[Kimberly Talbot]: In order to price it, there needs to be a narrative for phasing. So if it's a situation where, you know, you're going to have to, please, we're not necessarily doing this, but displace people and put them in portables, you know, that needs to be sort of played out a bit so that we get some good numbers to use to compare these options against them.

[Luke Preisner]: So in February, we expect, three or four options, actually four, presented along parameters of both technical, high level layouts, and possibly, you know, sort of discussion of how space is used. We expect to see a schedule forecast along with any, I'll say big rock factors. You mentioned the one about mobile classrooms, but I'm sure there's probably others. And then finally cost on a per square foot basis for comparing, between the four, and then also potentially comparative analysis against the historical data.

[Matt Gulino]: Yeah, and all the estimates that we get will be from two independent cost estimators. AM, 4GD, MPM, and C are probably the two most knowledgeable school building estimators. So working with two independent estimators will also kind of help us gauge where the market's at at this time.

[John Falco]: When will this be the phase? We also discussed costs and things that MSBAs like not interested in administration. Pretend we want to build a whole new pool somewhere. Will this be, well, we're going to skip that. But will the end of the PDP phase include that where if we decide we're going to build an administrative way, will that already be part of that or will we be tacking that on at a later date? When do we do it so we don't miss it? Because I don't want us to be like, we've decided it's going to cost this much, and then we have all these things that we suddenly are displacing with no place to go.

[Libby Brown]: We will start. Those things will be identified by the end of this phase. But moving into the PSR phase, we're narrowing it down to a single option. That's when we're really going to dig into that.

[Unidentified]: We won't miss it. I promise.

[Jenny Graham]: Any other questions before we move on?

[Luke Preisner]: I have one more, but maybe I'll save it for later. It has to do with looking at alternatives for different infrastructure systems. Hold that thought. Lots of ways to spin a cat. We can talk about it later.

[Jenny Graham]: Yeah, hold that thought. There's something coming for you.

[Maria D'Orsi]: Oh, you've got something about student enrollment. I noticed that this week there was a post about, there's ongoing, there's new discussions about the elementary schools being overcrowded and that considering the middle schools. I'm just wondering if the, are we confident in the number of students for the new building that you're sort of projecting? Great question.

[Jenny Graham]: So the information that you're referring to about the elementary schools and the middle schools started with the elementary schools in a few cases being at current capacity. So we did a space study and we are sort of moving toward a shift that would move the fifth grade essentially out of the elementary schools and would reconfigure our middle schools to a five, six, seven, eight. That's one of the things that space study revealed was that the buildings themselves in all cases, they are not actually at capacity. They just are at capacity as we currently are using them. There was actually like, capacity for like seven or 800 more students across the elementary and middle schools. That was the result of the study. Now, is it really seven or 800? I don't know, but it's, there's capacity there if we think differently about how the building space is used. So that's that effort. This effort actually happened before, right? When we certified our enrollment with MSBA, we had to do a whole study that looked at, we did a whole enrollment study that looked at our historical enrollment, and it looked at planned and projected growth. It looked at factors about like where growth has sort of also typical impacts on school enrollment, and in particular places where there might be a different than normal impact. So all of that was done like last summer, 24, and out of that came a certification of our enrollment number at 1395 for the high school, which is about 200 students more than we typically see here. And that is because in that enrollment study, we did a lot of back and forth with MSBA, particularly around some of the planned growth in the city. So we have capacity, and that number is locked in. So if it's becomes the wrong number at some point in time, kind of no opportunity to change that. But also that getting to that like capacity number was like 10 or 15 years, like down the road at our best estimates right now. So the enrollment study at least made me feel pretty good that we're not building a building that's immediately going to be at capacity. Like we were able to like make that case with MSBA. And they agreed and we certified and agreed with them on 1395 for the 9-12 students.

[Libby Brown]: I think so.

[Jenny Graham]: Yeah. It was like, there was a lot of back and forth. The city's planning department was involved and they looked carefully and it's part of why it took so long. They looked really carefully at the information we provided them. They had to change their typical models to account for some of those anomalies. And then that's how the 1395 came to be.

[Libby Brown]: I could add the school, once we, once it is finally built, it is built for a slight, you know, in case there's more over that design involvement.

[Maria D'Orsi]: So I can't remember which percentage over, but it's not a ton, but it does give you some little wiggle room above that 1395, if you do.

[Matt Rice]: I think Jen, the number is, we designed 85% utilization of the spaces. But you can schedule and operate a high school at a little bit higher than that, up to like 90%. At a certain point, you're over-constrained in terms of schedule and spaces. So you don't want to go too much higher than 90, but that 5% range, that gets you a little bit of the additional flexibility there.

[SPEAKER_10]: So it won't feel terribly tight if you are at 1395, exactly. Got it. Thank you.

[Matt Gulino]: Just to touch quickly on the other deliverables up at the top, educational visioning and educational programming, that's a lot of the ongoing efforts, the programming meetings. We've been here at the high school meeting with all of the different departments and teachers. Today was our last day of those programming meetings, so now we'll gather that information and start to put together the space summary. Uh, that also goes hand in hand with the educational visioning that will be taking place throughout, uh, December. Uh, and those two documents really feed into the space summary. And that's when we start to understand how many classrooms, you know, you have CT spaces, uh, overall building size. Um, and then the existing conditions report, uh, is, is exactly that it's just, um, studying the existing site and the existing building, uh, as a part of, uh, this PDP phase. And then we touched on the cost estimate. For the upcoming meetings, from an approval standpoint, tonight we'll just kind of be talking about updates on December 22nd. At our next meeting, we'll have drafts of the space summary and the existing conditions report. So that would be the first time that we'll start looking at the actual space summary for the school. And then February 9th, we will have the majority of the PDP contents to review and with hopes of receiving an approval from this committee on February 23rd for our submission to the MSBA on the 25th. So with that, I'll kick it back over to SMMA so they can dig into some of the details on everything that's been going on over the last month or so.

[Jenny Graham]: And Matt, just to make sure I'm clear, the February 9th meeting is a school committee meeting. Is that correct? Or are you saying that there needs to be a building committee meeting then?

[Unidentified]: something?

[Matt Gulino]: Yeah, if we have a conflict with the school committee, we should find another date for that, but I do think we'll need another meeting in February.

[Maria D'Orsi]: We need one in January, too.

[Jenny Graham]: Okay, so FYI, there's two more meetings coming your way. We'll huddle after this and get those dates out to people. Okay, thanks.

[SPEAKER_10]: We will need to go to the school committee for the educational plan.

[Jenny Graham]: Yeah, we are planning for that already, so we're good there.

[Kimberly Talbot]: So we did show this slide at the last meeting, but now we have real dates and actually several of the meetings listed below have been completed as of today, as you've heard. So again, just a real quick recap, and we do have Mike Perolo online. He'll speak to the educational visioning piece as a bit different than the educational programming. So Rosemary Park, who actually didn't meet last time, she's an educational programmer with SMA, and Matt have been here how many days? The number of dots is going to change every day. And they'll tell you how many meetings. So those investigations are more about space, your space, what those requirements are, as different from the visioning piece, which is the really big picture thinking. So a lot of those activities are going to stretch, as you'll see, into December and sort of culminating in early January with putting the pieces together and really talking about adjacencies. So that's why I interjected, we will be meeting with you in January because you need to see how some of these parts and pieces are gonna start coming together. So with that, Mike, if you're on, if you can provide an update on the visioning part.

[Mike Pirollo]: Yes. Hi, everybody. Sorry, I'm not there in person, but yeah, I'll go through just some of the things that we've completed so far and what the next few weeks and months will look like to piggyback on all the things that have been said so far. So we in phase one, if you recall, I went through similar sites the last time we chatted. Phase one is really about kind of immersing ourselves in your world. And then taking school folks out to be inspired by precedent schools that have recently been built in the Commonwealth. And then really use that to help kind of springboard the conversation about the future of teaching and learning and space. So we had a goal and priority mapping session where we started to identify overarching goals for the project. That is still in progress. We're doing it a bit asynchronously this time around. So a few of us met with the smaller educational leadership team. And then folks that couldn't join have been using an online platform to share their thoughts. And all of that will be synthesized over the next week or two. And then we'll be brought back to that smaller educational leadership group. And then we had a great day last week on the 20th for the student shadowing session. And essentially what happened was a large group of us, about 20 folks from the district and the design team and I, we shadowed a handful of students to really see firsthand get a look at how learners really move through their day, where they experience support, where their experiences feel a bit fragmented, and even when, where the environment and the teaching and learning itself really helps or gets in the way. We looked at classes, we looked at transition times, we spent time at lunch, and we were able to really see, you know, real conditions in real time, shaping learning, belonging, student access, and things like that. Um, we had a great debrief session after and so that work will also help lead and shape the visioning sessions that are upcoming in phase 2. So we have 1 on the 9th of December and then 1 on the 17th of December. There are 2 full day sessions. The first one will really focus on the learner experience. We'll have students sharing their firsthand experiences about pinch points in the building, moments of joy, and just their day-to-day life. We'll also dig a bit into teaching and learning envisioning session one as well. Then envisioning session two is where we start to really translate what that ideal space and learning environment want to be to support the teaching and learning we talk about envisioning one. And then we will start to get way more granular and really land the plane in phase three. So as Helen just said, we will be back again in January. So on January 9th, we'll hold almost a full day of program and adjacency mapping, essentially where we take all the outcomes from the visioning sessions and then really start to think about how that informs and shapes the overall day-to-day experience, ideally, and the locations of programs throughout the building. You know, where CTE plays with core academic spaces, how admin fits in, how special education fits in. So by the end of that session, we really have a strong understanding of what the overall building really wants to be. And I guess that would be it. Does anyone have any questions about the different pieces?

[Jenny Graham]: Who's in charge? I just wanted to say thank you, because when you say we had a lot of meetings, they mean like 60 or 70 meetings. And they've done them all in a handful of weeks. So you all have worked really hard and really fast. So we appreciate it. I also really appreciate Dr. Glusi and the team here who is making this all happen because it's its own Herculean effort to pull all of the right people to the right place at the right time. So there's lots and lots of good, solid educational work happening to position us for the rest of this project.

[Mike Pirollo]: I will say that I've never had a district leadership spend so much time helping the coordination efforts for at least the sessions I've done so far. So I echo that and I'm honestly so grateful. I think I'm super excited about where we're gonna go envisioning. I think it says a lot about the district and the leadership in the community. This slide here just reiterates again those two different groups that we're going to pull from a call on during the full day visioning sessions in December and then that program and adjacency planning session. So we have this educational leadership team. That's the smaller group of folks that really represent the major program areas in the school. And it also represents a lot of the administrative leadership in the school. So that's the group that will go on school tours. That was the group that participated in the shadow day. And then that is the group that will bring all the visioning outcomes and do that programming and adjacency mapping day. And then the educational forum, that's the really large group of stakeholders from the school, from the community, students, parents, educators sitting side by side, really building that big, broad vision in those two full-day sessions coming up in the next couple of weeks.

[Kimberly Talbot]: I have to stop here because initially I looked at that timeline schedule and it showed seven days of meetings for the programming. And I thought it did not really tell you exactly who we met with and how many, just the breadth of the scope of meetings. So we had 49 educational programming meetings on top of the visioning meetings and the prep for all of that. And we met with every department within the school, every CTE program. And then also we met with every program that is anticipated to be in the school, to be in the building as well in the future. So I see a lot of familiar faces this evening. I feel like Matt, you and I have kind of been living in the high school. But I mean, it's been amazing. And during these programming meetings, As stated, we talk more about how the space is being used today. What's the big dream? What's the ideal and optimal space for delivering the best education, best program to the students? And then what are the obstacles that are getting in the way today physically. So we have, we just finished up our 49th meeting today. So I don't have all, I don't have all of it downloaded just yet, but all of those meeting minutes, because now we have to do 49 minutes of meeting minutes. And I'm sure everyone is very envious of that. But I do have to say, I do have to really thank Dr. Pelosi and Marta Grahl and Chad Fallon for helping us mobilize super quickly to get these meetings scheduled all before Thanksgiving break. So it was a really massive undertaking. And so if you go to the next slide, we have actually a lot of takeaways, but, and I'm not gonna read every single one of these takeaways because you'll have access to the PowerPoint But I just wanted to highlight a few of these and you will get, you'll get a whole packet of meeting minutes to also review. But, you know, some things I wanted to touch on that we heard repeatedly from educators, administrators, and students were that, you know, students need spaces to just kind of be, you know, it helps them foster relationships with peers. It allows them to, collaborate with one another. And also just kind of for taking a moment to sort of reset and just, you know, not not have to sit on the floor of a hallway outside of their lockers. And they're really just giving them a purpose, purposeful space. And we've heard, I got to sit in on a co-teaching, a co-taught class which was really great. We've heard a lot about the co-teaching model and it seems to be working wonderfully actually for the inclusionary aspect of education. We know that the special education programs are expected to see an increase in students, especially with the conditions program moving up into the high school. And kind of as a result, you know, there are sensory and calming spaces are going to be needed at the school. And not just for special education students, but for anyone, for anyone who needs a moment. We know that there's a continued increasing need for mental health and emotional support for students. And so we'll take a look at what does that mean in terms of space implications? And then, you know, for CTE, knowing that the program growth is being planned for, it's actively being planned for, not just with the existing programs adding instructors, but with the planned four additional programs coming to the high school. And then also we heard a lot about the outdoors and the school is using the fells a lot because it's beautiful, valuable resource. I actually, in one of my classes I saw a deer window. But there was also a desire. So there was kind of more desire to increase access to outdoor classrooms and high quality outdoor learning spaces. We talked about sensory gardens as well. But just a variety of spaces outdoors. We did talk a lot about the with the CT programs, the different advantages to the different CTE schedules with the A, B schedules and then C schedules for some of the programs. And so that's something that we'll have to understand how that may impact the way that the space is counted for. We have heard about, you know, all these programs that are, all the programs that will need to have some kind of public presence or public facing identity. And so that's going to be a challenge for us to understand, you know, what does that mean for the school? Because we've, the programs that are truly community facing and public facing, you don't want to have the public really, you know, coming into the high school portion during the school day, if they are meant to be visiting some of these other programs, like the Method Family Network and such.

[Luke Preisner]: So the question actually on Airpoint Somerville has a nice auditorium. It's almost like a peninsula off of the main building. For shows, you can access the auditorium and theater without having to go through the school. That's one aspect of that site that I like. So in terms of feedback, you touched on a lot of things generally positive. Did any negative feedback come across? You canvassed a very broad swath of the student population and staff population. Did you come across any issues where people felt unsafe because of the condition of the infrastructure, the tyranny of the long hallways, possibly facilities like old locker rooms that have visibly broken features? Did you come across any feedback that expressed where an individual or groups of individuals expressed insecurity, not feeling safe, not due to infrastructure, but due to isolation. It's a very large building. And I guess, did you come across any other sort of negative topics that we should know about? You know, I don't

[Kimberly Talbot]: I don't recall anyone saying that they felt safe due to feeling isolated or disconnected, I guess. I don't really know that anyone had mentioned being unsafe.

[Matt Rice]: One thing that's, I think, important to mention, those of you that were at the meetings will understand this piece of it, but we did start off each meeting with a series of givens. that are going to be addressed in a new building or an addition renovation project, regardless of any sort of programmatic decisions that we make. And so we wanted to try to get people away from just focusing on those. And I think a lot of those are potentially negative areas of critique, right? The lack of natural daylight in many of the spaces, the Wi-Fi. I mean, there's a whole litany of things that we know are going to get addressed as part of a project. I think in general, we were trying to steer people away from sort of focusing on sort of the more granular areas of critique that we know really impact everybody. And they're certainly real in terms of adversity affecting people's experience within the building today. But we also know that those things are all going to be addressed. So I think generally we tried to steer more towards trying to find the positive and sort of the constructive that were more focused on sort of educational goals moving forward, as opposed to the pragmatics of the existing facility.

[Kimberly Talbot]: Yeah, and I think, I mean, I guess that would have been a good slide to show you this list of givens that we put up, because, you know, we already, we know what a lot of the shortcomings were, because we know that access to power outlets is always gonna be power outlets, the heating, the cooling, and windows. That's always gonna be the biggest things that educators ask about. And honestly, I think that educators, when it comes to a facility, they actually don't ask for much. Those are the things that they ask for. And so we know that we could talk a lot about conditions of those, but we knew that those were going to be taken care of in the new building or renovated building. So as Matt was saying, we really wanted them to focus outside of that. And really, you know, I think that teachers just do so much with whatever they're given. And so we're trying to get them to think really big, you know, what is what's the ideal type of space to be able to teach?

[Luke Preisner]: Okay, thank you. And then just one more as a point of follow up. I, you know, I couldn't be a part of any of these visionary sessions, daily obligations, but if you could give us an overview of how they were executed. You met with many people, 60, 70 meetings, were these structured conversations that were exclusively verbally guided? or did you prepare questionnaires or printed materials that guide the discussion? What did each of these meetings roughly look like in terms of process execution?

[Jenny Graham]: Before you answer that, Luke, just to clarify, the only people who have been involved in these sessions are educators who work in this building to date. So everything that has happened so far is about the employees that work in this building.

[Kimberly Talbot]: So really what we did was we prepared four slides to show the, just give an overview of the process, what the difference between educational visioning, the difference between educational programming is, because we realized that we really needed to explain that first so that they could see what the difference was, because they heard these two terms being thrown out there. Um, we, uh, explained the purpose of the meeting. Um, and we gave, uh, we showed simple schedule that, um, actually you've already seen, um, and then just explains that this was the first of three educational program meetings that will occur throughout the, um, the project, uh, cycle. Um, we gave that list of givens, which also includes better site circulation and, um, you know, reliable Wi-Fi, and then back there. And then that was really it for slides, because we had a list of questions just for our own reference to make sure that we could touch on certain things. But it was really about, again, hearing about how they teach today, how students are demonstrating their learning, how the educators, what do they wish their learning could look like, Um, but they can't do it today because of physical. Limitations of the building. Um, and so, I mean, that's, that's really kind of the, the framework around the, uh, the meetings. Um, and I would say kind of like happening parallel to all of this, which I will be informing all of the work of this team. Are these, these were individual by department by focus individual meetings. then there was the shadow day. So some of the teachers, some of the administrators, we shadowed six different students and follow them for three periods of the day, as well as engage in a tour of the school. And then we're going to be going on a tour of preschool sites. And I think all of these experiences are also providing our educators and our administrators with a little bit more of like a toolbox to do the visioning and see, all right, this is how we're doing it now, but how can we do it? What can our dreams encompass? And by engaging in these conversations, shadowing the students, seeing what's happening on a daily basis, trying with furniture or sitting in, as simple as that, and then going for tours to buildings that are new and have maybe a different way of organizing

[Maria D'Orsi]: And what that looks like is all going to help inform the educational plan.

[Kimberly Talbot]: And we had images kind of in our back pocket if we felt like somebody was getting a little stuck and was having a hard time trying to envision something. And you could tell it was kind of on the tip of their tongue, but couldn't quite get it out. So we had questions. But we tried really hard to do the research first. I read through the program of studies, the master schedule, checked all of the different needs of the programs, what I could find prior to meeting with the different programs. And so we were able to, I think that we had some really great discussions on the needs. And when we talked about the space needs, it's not just the classroom needs, it's also any of the support needs that are included too. So I think we'll talk a little bit more about it when we get into the space summary as well. But did I answer your question?

[Unidentified]: Yeah, thank you.

[Kimberly Talbot]: Also, I just wanted to say we met Kelsey, the assistance dog. Very excited, and she's doing a wonderful job. But that's a first for me. to see a therapy dog at a school. And it was, it's really, it's truly great. Yeah. I don't know how you follow Kelsey. So along with learning about, remember I said, getting to know your face, learning about how teachers teach, how students are learning here. What we think this project can be through visioning, we have to do the physical stuff, the hard stuff of building, looking at the buildings, understanding the systems, and getting involved with site investigations. So to be clear, in December, we'll have a draft, certainly of what building and systems, what we see, what our engineers and architects see as possibilities and issues. some of these site investigations will take longer and extend into the new year. So we won't have everything next month, but we're hoping to have everything underway. And I think the one that takes the longest is the site survey. And we do have Aaron Bustilio here, a civil engineer, and Lois Vaughn is also a civil engineer on the team. We also have online Wayne Kueffner from Brennan, our survey consultant, because site survey is underway. I don't think many of you are aware. And just to give a better sense of what that entails, so that people know what they're seeing when they see the guys in the yellow vests and they're there in the street. And perhaps, I don't know, if you want to cue up Wayne a little bit. Part of this phase is about visioning and educational program, but we have an awful lot to learn about your site. So survey is one piece. We have to complete a survey that will tell us information about where pavement and vegetation is. It will tell us slope of your site. It will tell us where the property line ends and where streets and residents' properties begin. pick up the wetlands that are around will be flagged. So it's a very, very critical piece that all projects start with a survey. And it takes a long time, the site is large. So the field work is gonna take a while. So the critical part was to start that as soon as possible. And it started before we knew it was going to. But to be clear, Helen introduced Wayne Keithner. Wayne, I just want to introduce you, but then also if you could help this room understand what activities have taken place and why. Can you hear us?

[Wayne Keefner]: Sure, can you hear me?

[Kimberly Talbot]: Yeah, thank you.

[Wayne Keefner]: OK, can you see me now?

[Unidentified]: Yes.

[Wayne Keefner]: Perfect. He's in the Zoom.

[Unidentified]: Go ahead, Wayne.

[Wayne Keefner]: OK, so survey is a process, and I don't want to bore you, but I'll try to walk through the basics of it. So when we start a survey, one of the very first things we do is some office research. We pull some deeds, some plans to see what we can expect the property line to look like, the boundaries of the site, as well as what we can expect to see in the field, whether it might be an iron pipe or steel plug or, or a granite bound. And those are, we call those minor mutations. And what they do is they, they usually set on property corners, and we need those in order to tie the property line down. So once we do that office research, and we have an understanding of what we can expect to find in the field, the very first thing we do is go out into the site, and we lay out our control network. And that control network is called a traverse. And what we do is we set points, which our field guys will set up on with their total stations. And from there, they will do the survey for the site. And the traverse has to be a closed loop. And then we do a bunch of calcs in the office to distribute whatever error that might be from turning the angles and things like that, and that's called a corrected traverse. Once we have that, then we go back to where those points that we previously set, and then we start the actual survey. So on large projects or projects that have a large property, we don't just stay within the site itself. We need to get monumentation for the street right-of-ways, the property corners of the site we're surveying, as well as the adjacent sites. I say the adjacent properties to see if there's monumentation there. Typically, a property that we're surveying won't have every single corner having a monument. We find whatever monumentation we can, then we usually have to tie in some monumentation that might be on adjacent parcels. That process is compiling the various Um, deeds and plans. And then from that, we make a determination of the boundary for the project that we're working on. So that's why you might see some of our folks in the street, um, setting travelers points. Eventually we'll be in the street. I'll probably opening manholes getting inverts because, uh, Aaron might need those for her design later and things like that. So that's kind of the process. And then if you're not used to it, that may sound weird, but I'm trying to explain the best way I can.

[Kimberly Talbot]: So what survey means is that we're not taking down trees where you see them. We're not developing the land where you see them. It doesn't mean anything. It just means we're trying to find out more information about the site.

[Wayne Keefner]: Exactly. And the traverse usually always extends outside the boundary of our site. usually within the public right-of-way of the adjacent streets, because we use that right-of-way. So the street right-of-way is the same line as, say, your front property line. That's the exact same line. So a lot of times we need to use that right-of-way to define a front property line that then might define the front property line of our site.

[Kimberly Talbot]: Any questions for Wayne and Erin on the survey? They're the ones out of the gate first, and they will be very visible.

[Luke Preisner]: Is it expected to continue through December, January, February?

[Kimberly Talbot]: Fieldwork is going to go till the end of the year, and correct me if I'm wrong, Lane, but that's extensive.

[Wayne Keefner]: That's the current schedule for the fieldwork, I think, wrapping up the first week of the new year. That's weather dependent, obviously, right? So I think that's probably one of the reasons why we kind of wanted to, you know, start as early as we could. There's some things you can survey when there's a lot of snow on the ground. There's some things you cannot. Obviously, anything that's on the ground, flush with the ground when it's covered with snow is very difficult to access. So a lot of times we want to get out as much as we can. before the snow falls. We also were doing some drone survey for this project, so it's perfect timing because we want to get out after the leaves are down.

[Kimberly Talbot]: That's another thing to be aware of, and I believe your first drone flight is this coming Friday, correct, Payne?

[Wayne Keefner]: Exactly, yeah.

[Kimberly Talbot]: Okay, and so I know the district is working on making sure people are aware. This might be a simple question, but where you said there'll be a lot of people doing this work, are they all going to be wearing these vests so it's identifiable who they are and what the work they're doing?

[Wayne Keefner]: Yeah. All of our field crews have the vests, and all of our trucks are painted.

[Kimberly Talbot]: Wayne, how big is the crew?

[Wayne Keefner]: The crew that will be on site is usually just a two-man crew, a two-person crew. And usually it's the same crew for most of the time. Our drone pilot is different than the normal field crew. So I'd say from our survey crew, the most different people that you would see might be like four or five different folks during that one-month period, usually in pairs.

[Unidentified]: Do they need to be quarry checks to be around the building?

[Wayne Keefner]: They are quarry checked.

[Jenny Graham]: Right there. And then I think the other thing just worth mentioning, because of all this activity, we're actively working to create a list of abutters. There actually are not that many abutters to this project relative to what some school projects see. But we have identified what we, the administration have identified as like, these are the people that we're going to call abutters. And we are working on a letter that will go out to all of them and be flyer to people's houses in the coming days, thanks to some voluntolds, high school students, Lucas Graham, among them, and said friends. But we'll, we'll That's like a two-fold thing. One is so that people understand, like on Friday, if there's a drone overhead, it's for the high school project and there's something nefarious going on. But also to start to create a pathway of communication with the abutters so that when things happen, when we want to invite them to meetings, when they have questions, that there's just an open line of communication there. And this project is moving really fast, and we're a little bit out of sequence communication-wise, but we'll get where we need to be.

[Nicole Morell]: And Jenny, I just wanted to ask specifically or explicitly, because I know there's concern about it. You mentioned a lot of being in the right of way or being out in the streets. And then obviously, because the property touches the fells, there are markings in the fells now. So just making sure that's explicitly said why that's happening. I know you basically said it, but there are markings that are very close to wetlands and that feel deeper into the woods than I think people think the property goes to. So if you could just speak to that a little bit more specifically.

[Wayne Keefner]: Sure. So the traverse that we set, when we do survey, we want to be fairly close to those property corners. So if we find minementation, we're not shooting like a mile away. But you might see stakes out there with paint on them. So those are usually marking one of our track points. So those are the points over which either the equipment operator or the rodman will will be set on. That's how we know that we're on the right coordinate system, basically, so that all of our points that we shoot during this all come in in the correct position. It's very common that during our survey work, we'll put those stakes in just so our field crew knows how to easily find those. This is a large property, and even though it'll be kind of the same people out there all the time, it's still very large. And so just having those painted stakes. Those painted stakes are usually right adjacent to what might be a hub and a tack, like a spike in the ground with a tack on it. That tack is the actual trap point that we would shoot. But the stake just lets them know where it is. When they're done with the field work, they'll probably pull all the stakes for that. There will also be flags that the wetland folks might hang that we'll also need to locate at some point. But the stakes you're seeing are marking our trial points. Those are the fixed points that we set up on in order to do the various surveying tasks.

[Kimberly Talbot]: The next activity will also include some staking, but we need to understand more about the soil on the site. So our consultant Haley and Aldridge will be performing boring series of soil borings and test pits. The stakes do not identify building corners of the future project. They do not identify driveways. They are just for our information. But you will start to see those around as well. And those will be contained within the balance of the site. That's a different coordination effort, making sure you understand when they're coming. Are they going to be noisy? Do you have a day of testing? They will be noisy. All of that. You'll reach out to us. Yes. Several days. Any questions on Geotab? We're going to be measuring the sound on the site. It's really important because we are required to not increase sound levels by more than 10 decibels at property lines. And so you can see the picture there. It just looks kind of like a little toolbox. We're going to put those out on the property lines. And they'll be out there for a few days. And they'll measure noise sound on the site. And that will establish the baseline We'll use this with our acousticians to make sure that we have all of the right sound mitigation associated mechanical units and everything else that we have control over. So you may see those on the property line. Wayne did talk a little bit about wetlands flagging. So if there are wetlands in and around the site, you have to know where those are, the regulatory areas. So really critical in planning where we can develop roadways and buildings and whatnot, where the wetlands are. And again, it'll be like a nylon tie onto a tree branch is what it'll look like to have a number on it. We are also going to perform a geophysical survey again through Gilead Altridge Geotech. So geophysical survey, we're essentially mapping the bedrock on the site. And so what you're going to see if you're out here when they're doing it is there, this picture is from another project. They drag metal plate on this little tractor and then they, hit the metal plate and they can measure how quickly the vibrations can bounce back. And essentially we'll get a mapped topography of the Fedrock on the site, which is really critical to understand costs associated with earthwork. So again, really critical. And they calibrate that information with the borings that they take. If you have any historic borings, we're going to get in there, but that is that piece. This cannot happen when snow's on the ground. So I don't, these folks are not, are from around here. that might need to be an activity that wait, but we'll look to mobilize as soon as we can on the geophysical. And hydrofoil test is again, something pretty typical. We'll blow hydrant and measure another hydrant nearby. And it will really give us information on what the building needs for a fire pump. It will be a fully sprinkler building in the future. And so your city may require it be performed at nighttime or on the weekend or some, we'll coordinate all that with through the water. Have you ever had students, student groups, like record any of this work? Like video it? I'm just thinking like, I think it's really cool.

[Jenny Graham]: Like Kim and I were like nerding out on the geophysical survey. And I know we talked before at a meeting about having our like, our film and TV media crew.

[Kimberly Talbot]: And I'm just wondering is like, is that something that's okay to do or? Now, yeah, I don't see why not. We usually get the request to give the data to your earth science, you know, yeah. Yeah, I don't see why not, but we can check.

[Matt Rice]: I think the only thing there is that there's going to be there fairly lengthy activities, I think, individually. So there may be some level of excitement in terms of filming some portion of them, but I think that that shine will quickly wear off. And then, but it's probably good to have a good sampling of each one of them, right, just so that people know if they see a particular thing going on, it's this, right? And they can correlate it back to one of the videos, potentially, that students have recorded.

[Kimberly Talbot]: Thank you.

[Maria D'Orsi]: Great, thank you.

[Kimberly Talbot]: I think there's one more slide. Yeah. I'll do traffic and then I'm out of here. I know that many feel about the fight is traffic related. And so there's this traffic is really two pieces for us. First, it's understanding existing conditions. So SMA will be on site observing arrival and dismissal probably several times. And then our traffic consultant with Fort Hill will also be on site observing arrival and dismissal, but then also studying nearby intersections. So we can understand how things work today. And then once we go into the future, what are those implications on those intersections and what we can do to mitigate those. there's increased delays if there are. So that's the traffic. Don't forget to come Saturday. You have a lot to download.

[Jenny Graham]: I mean, Saturday mornings are wild here.

[Kimberly Talbot]: It is not the first time we've been asked to observe traffic. We actually, as part of our programming, one of our colleagues who isn't here tonight, she's actually been taking the T, she's taking the bus. So she can download all of that information to you as well. And she's been riding with students. So we even have that firsthand experience as well. Sometimes we always like to engage actually the students on traffic. Inevitably it comes down to student culture on how they arrive or if there's anything that a project can do to help impact multimodal transit. Usually these things go off into the site, onto the streets, but what we can do, if anything, to help traffic needs, I think is something that we're going to be interested in. So just pulling students to see how they get around and what could motivate them to get around differently.

[Matt Rice]: So everything that Erin and Wayne have covered is all site-related. We're also going to be studying the building, obviously, because that's the other big piece of site investigation that we need to do. Um, so we were, we're handling this in a couple of different ways. Um, actually it was this past Friday, which was just. Um, we, we had about, I don't know, 18, 20 different folks, um, here from, um, a whole variety of our engineering goals, some of which are in-house to SMMA, some of which are consultants, but included everything, um, from mechanical, electrical, plumbing, fire protection, and structural engineers. as well as our hazardous material consultant, our security consultant, our data folks, code accessibility. So a large group of folks and John and Ken were absolutely amazing to donate essentially a day of their time to lead us all around the building. We split up into two groups. I think Ken's group primarily focused on occupied areas within the building. So looking at things like accessibility, But I think you guys also ended up visiting most of the data rooms and sort of the tour of the security features as well. And then John took us on the more glamorous tour of walking through all of the boiler rooms, all of the electric rooms, below the pool, which is a very entertaining space if you have not been down there yet. So we really got sort of a very close up view of all the mechanical systems within the existing building. There's a wealth of knowledge here as well in terms of the evolution of the building, things that have happened over time. And so part of it was recording that anecdotal evidence as well. Our environmental consultant was also going around with us and looking at where every type of chemical was stored within the school, both in sort of maintenance areas, but also in educational areas to understand like in cosmetology, what types of uh, fluids are there that we need to worry about managing and whether they're moved, whether they're disposed of. Um, so we're looking at a whole bunch of different things as we're moving to the building. Um, and it was a really sort of valuable tour, um, on both fronts in terms of looking at both occupied and sort of the support spaces, the system spaces up on the roof as well. Um, sort of doing that very detailed level of analysis. Um, Associated with that in terms of looking at the systems, we're also charged with developing drawings of the existing building. There are various drawings that exist out there from different vintages, but we've been finding that the programming discussions where we actually work with every group that we've been meeting with all 49 meeting groups to sort of map where their spaces are within the building and make sure that we have an accurate understanding. We have to match that mapping of the usage of the space with the actual physical dimensions to make sure that those are accurate. Because we're going to compare that in a second. You'll see the document that does that to what we're proposing as well. So we need to understand where we're coming from and where we're going as part of square footage. And while Ken actually did have access to a really great set of the original drawings from 1967, they're not, A, they were hand-drawn. And it's not to critique anything that is about hand-drawing, but sometimes when you hand-draw something, you can dimension something and you can write a dimension and it doesn't meet the actual dimension that's there. And so there was some of that that we noted as we were trying to build our drawings up, our digital drawings. And so what we're gonna be doing to help supplement that after we've modeled everything from those existing drawings is doing a first person scan of the interior of the building. So what that involves is a crew of scanning folks that walk through with little body mounted scanners And basically they create a point cloud of everything that the human eye can see, the scanner is seeing as well, right? So we get a sort of three-dimensional picture of what that is. And we can use that three-dimensional picture to then calibrate all the walls to make sure that the original 1967 drawings that we have are accurate or they're not. And sort of, it's also going to pick up all the renovations that happened here over the course of time. We do have some of those drawings, the science lab renovations, the Medford community media renovations, but there's all sorts of different things that happen here over the course of time. It's a big building. There's a lot of time that has passed since it was built. So really what we're trying to do is get to a dimensionally accurate portrait of the building as quickly as possible using that scanning process. So we're going to be doing that on the exterior of the building. It's very non invasive in terms of affecting teaching and learning. They can walk around the outside of the building and they'll scan the elevations. To do it interior, though, we're probably going to be coming through after school hours to do that. And we're going to work with the school building administration to make sure that they know when that's happening. But that's probably going to be in the course of maybe a week or two of scanning and walking around.

[Jenny Graham]: And thank you for your patronage of Bistro 489.

[Matt Rice]: I think that was the best lunch that the entire engineering team has ever had after doing one of those site walks. Very much appreciated.

[Kimberly Talbot]: Any questions on all of the investigative work? Okay. So now back to trying to Hip hip horns people. All right. The last meeting we introduced the topic of what SMA had called focus groups, but we have gotten some good input from the district. And really the role of these groups is advisory to this body. So we've had great success using the advisory team method, not only to get more deep information about the project, about what the goals are sustainability-wise, education-wise, site-wise, et cetera. But it's also another way to engage more folks to the process and the project. And so if you want to go to the next one, I can just kind of go through again and The description is on each one of these sign-ups. I'm sending them around. We're hoping to tap into this incredible group of resourced people to contribute to these.

[Jenny Graham]: Before you go into the details, just to be clear, what we're going to send around tonight are sign-ups if you are interested in being part of one of these advisory teams and have expertise to lend to that topic. Once we have a sense of the interest from this committee, we will put out a broader call to the community to participate as well. Because the idea here is that these advisory teams start to wrap in our boards and commissions and some of this particular folks at city hall who may need to be involved or over for traffic, et cetera, et cetera. So if you are interested, That's great, but just know that we also will be asking others to participate in these meetings as well. And all of that's to come, but we wanted to talk through and understand how you all wanna plug into that first before we make that bigger, broader ask to the community.

[Kimberly Talbot]: Thank you. Yeah, and so you'll see, we don't expect to populate these groups with just you all, so don't worry. Um, so sustainability and MEP systems. This is, uh, this is about really digging into some of the details about systems that we'll, we'll analyze for, um, for this project. Um, and it also does, and because they are somewhat overlapping sustainability goals, not only from a system standpoint, but also material standpoint, um, definitely, you know, um, gets involved with, um, landscape, uh, as well. Um, For all four of these advisory teams, we're looking for attendance at virtual meetings. We're hoping to get one in in December. That would be more of a listening kind of feedback meeting. And then we pick back up in January and March and then September. So March, we're into PSR, the next half of feasibility in September as we get into schematic design. So we're asking for four hours, maybe hour and a half here and there of your, or whomever's time. These groups can be as big as we want, but you know, we want a robust set of folks. So say 15 people. A little bit of the next. Next is safety and security. And I probably should touch on. So yeah, definitely. want to know who here thinks they can contribute to this topic, set of topics, really. But just rest assured, we absolutely do need to talk to first responders. We'll pull them in. So this is not just site safety and security. It was also about the site and site design. So they do actually all play well together. You'll be very involved in understanding development of the site, site plan, site design, but also again, looking for information, expertise on what you want to see happen on the site, not just technically, but also athletic fields, we know are a huge issue, shortage of athletic fields. So same makeup here in terms of number of people and meeting. Next one is exterior and interior design. This may pique some of the architect's interest, but shouldn't all be architects? And this is pretty self-explanatory. We'll talk about materials, material costs. There's also overlaps, healthy materials, both exterior and interior. And again, same meaning commitment and same number target, more or less, of people on this group. And then finally, educational planning and equity. This one we're looking, I think, for fewer folks because we already have an established education leadership team and many of whom are on this SBC. That is a pretty big group right now, right, Suzanne? 112 or so folks. But don't wanna shut other voices out. So we're going to have a few more people contributing to, tying into how the plan is being developed, being close to all the work that Rosemary and Mike Rolo are doing, and then kind of keeping an eye on that as the designs develop. And I'm gonna start to come together and play well together. And students, yes, we do have, yeah, students. And all of these, yeah.

[Adam Hurtubise]: Oh, Beth.

[John Falco]: Okay, one more, sorry. The definition of security here, this is outside the building.

[Kimberly Talbot]: Predominantly outside the building.

[John Falco]: Really, it's really that- We're not going to get into the, we want to have safe games in every classroom so people can hide.

[Kimberly Talbot]: Our security consultants stuff will involve interior cameras, but it's really that juncture between where the site meets the building that most of those- security things seem to interact. So we've certainly heard from a number of people concerned about the number of doors, exterior doors around the building. So things like that. It's where the building meets the site, but also beyond the security and site development. So I am going to send these around. Hold on one second. Aaron, did you have a question?

[Aaron Olapade]: It's more of a question slash comment. There's a handful of people that have interacted who just have reached out to me about the best interest in the community. So members of the community who live here, let's say, but maybe work outside the community or vice versa. They live somewhere else, but they work in Medford. And I think I just want to clarify that any and all members that interact in the community or live here in the community, do they have the capacity to be part of these commissions as long as they have, I think, as you mentioned, that expertise or the experience they can have with the groups.

[Jenny Graham]: Yeah. Yeah. And we'll put out an official communication about how to engage how to tell us that you are interested and then we'll get that out shortly once I think if we want to like nail down the meeting date so people know what we're asking them to commit to and then we can go.

[Kimberly Talbot]: Yeah, um yeah and I left space at the bottom you know if you know people that you kind of want to let us know. I'm actually going to sit around. I need the parents back. I'm just

[Unidentified]: And I really ran out of quick words. This is the educational element. So I'm just going to put that in front of us.

[Kimberly Talbot]: And not to say that, yes, put your name on something or you let us have another one.

[Unidentified]: Yeah.

[Libby Brown]: Absolutely. That's fine. Love you.

[Jenny Graham]: And I think, you know, we wanted to ask you all what those interest points are, because I think in the last meeting, some of the feedback I got afterwards was We don't know how we fit in just yet as a building committee. So that is obviously going to continue to evolve. But this is one of the ways that we can, in a tangible fashion, show you how to fit in right now in the early stages of the visioning.

[Unidentified]: I'm assuming you're going to stagger the meetings so that we are more familiar or want to sign up in a little bit.

[Adam Hurtubise]: I have no idea.

[Kimberly Talbot]: We're going to do the best we can. We'd love to get one in before the end of the year. Again, it's more broad, and we're expecting each other to get what we have to say. Or are you saying back to back? Oh, not on top of each other. But they might be back to back. I mean, we might just find one guy on just bang on.

[Unidentified]: I feel like we're going to get a couple of areas. You're already in that. We have 30 minutes. Hopefully we're not going to spend 30 minutes on the space summary. I think we all agree.

[Matt Rice]: And this is just one of those slides that's inherently challenging to read, regardless of what we do here. So I think this is our last section, actually, earlier. Yes. So we're close to the end here. We wanted to take a second and just introduce a critical piece of our deliverables to the state, to the Massachusetts School Building Authority, Um, and, um, this is really a critical document also that will evolve over time as we move forward, but we'll eventually map out all the spaces that are going to be included, um, within the new building. Regardless of whether it's school. Right. And so. It's probably actually better that we're not able to read it. Um, I really want to get people familiar with, um, just the visual of what it is and I'll, I'll walk you through, um, sort of the constituent pieces of it, the anatomy of it. just so you can understand what's going to be coming. The numbers that are on here right now are completely irrelevant because it's not been filled out. But essentially, this is a document that is provided by the MSBA as a template that we need to fill out. And it's a specific template, whether you're designing an elementary school, middle school, high school, a vocational school, or a comprehensive high school like we are. So there are different formulas that drive this. But essentially the top bars, which are purple.

[Adam Hurtubise]: They're blue.

[Matt Rice]: They're blue. I'm colorblind. So they're blue. Up at the top, there's a certain... So the blue bars up at the top are space categories. And so the entirety of the building is broken down into a series of typical categories that are for every single project. It starts off with core academic spaces, which is essentially your general academic classrooms, your science labs, some teacher planning spaces. It's sort of like the building blocks of the school. And this is fairly formulaic in terms of how it's generated. The next one down is special education. So the interesting thing about special education is that there is no boilerplate for special education spaces in the school. What the MSBA, the Massachusetts School Building Authority does is they defer to the Department of Elementary and Secondary Education, DESE, to basically confirm that the spaces that we'll be asking for have been tailored to the special education services and programs that are here at Medford High School. And so that's going to include the Curtis Tufts Therapeutic Day Program. It's going to include all sort of the general special education support spaces. as well as the specialized sub-separate programs that are included. So that section will be very Medford-specific as we run through it. It'll be entirely Medford-specific. The public day education spaces is actually where the Curtis Tusk program spaces will plug in. The next one down is art and music, which is very self-explanatory in terms of visual arts, performing arts spaces. That's where they're going to fall. The next one is going to be a big one for us, which is the vocations and technology space category. So this is where all the Chapter 74 programs are going to be located. Again, tailored specifically to the Medford current programs that are offered, as well as the four new ones that are going to be added in. The Department of Elementary and Secondary Education, in addition to special education, they also have purview over the Chapter 74 programs. So they give us some guidelines in terms of driving the sizing of those spaces. We have health and physical education down below that. So that is the gymnasium spaces. It is the support spaces like the gymnastics room, multipurpose spaces that are plugged in there. It will not be the pool, because that's not going to get plugged in through there. They're going to put that down into the other category, which is down below that we'll get to as we go through it. Locker rooms, health classrooms, sometimes a trainer's room. The AD's office, those things plug into health and PE. The media center is a very standalone category, which covers the space that we're in right now, as well as all the support spaces that are associated with it. This is where my, both my eyesight and my colorblindness, yep. Auditorium and drama, again, are very self-explanatory in terms of focusing on that particular resource. This is where we will get into the sizing of it and the words. sort of documented both auditory and proper, as well as the stage, as well as any drama spaces that are supporting it. Thank you, Rosemary. The next category down is dining and food service. So cafeteria, single cafeteria space, as well as the kitchen, the servery space is all tied into that particular category. Medical is a nurse's office, the school nurse's office that will just cover that immediate suite of spaces. Um, administration and guidance is going to be, um, extensive, just given sort of the various administrative, um, structures that are here. They'll cover things like house offices. It'll cover, um, Martha's office, um, Chad's office as well, and sort of surrounding suites, um, administrative support spaces as well. And in fact that the thing that it does not cover is the central administration office for the district. That will be down below in that other category as well, because it's not directly tied to the school, but we'll categorize it in a different area. And then custodial and maintenance, again, just as it sounds, it'll cover receiving, it'll cover office space for facilities, staff that are associated with the school building. We'll have to talk about sort of district facilities, offices, and sort of where those fall, and we'll just have to understand a little bit more Sort of about what what spaces and what roles are serving the school versus the district overall. So that's just some sort of sorting that we'll need to do. And then down below that is that other space category which is a sort of a catch all for things that are generally not reimbursable by MSBA. They will try and push things down there. more possible because it means that they're limiting their reimbursable piece of the overall funding equation. And we will push back and try to push things back up into the other space categories. That's sort of the normal dialogue that happens as part of any school project, again, regardless of the level, sort of sorting out what is in that other space category. Down below that, there's a series of sort of figures that are coming into play. The total student enrollment is there, and that drives all the formulas that are up above. So that's a piece that is set in stone. The 1395 target student enrollment is what's been agreed to. Um, they do end up tracking the spaces that are not occupied spaces. So circulation spaces, stairs, mechanical spaces, um, as a formula based off of the program, um, space, typically it's 1.5 times, um, whatever the occupied spaces that tells us how big our building is going to be overall. Um, and that totals up down in the bottom and that gives us sort of the overall building size. Um, and then this, as we were talking about earlier from the cost estimating perspective, overall building size will drive the overall building cost. And so those two things are going to be intrinsically linked, especially at this early phase, we don't have detail into the specific nuances of the project. But this is something that we will be starting to populate moving forward. If you look at the columns from left to right, there's going to be identification of every single space, the name of the space, Um, we do a first set of, uh, first pass through by looking at the existing conditions. So the scanning that I was talking about and the mapping of the usage of the building, that is all going to get plugged into the existing conditions column as we go through. And then as we move to the right hand side, um, we're actually going to be putting in proposed, um, square footages. Um, so there may actually be different versions of this space summary that we're going to generate based on different addition renovation options, right? If we're, renovating a set of CTE spaces, they might have a different square footage. And if we were building them new and we'll have to run out cost alternatives for each of those scenarios. So there'd be some variation as we go. There are separate columns for existing renovated square footage and new square footage. And those total up to give target square footage. Also within this document, there are sort of the baseline MSBA sizes for every space that's going to be in the building where there is one. Um, and they're sort of telling you also how you're getting there. So it's, it's a pretty, um, comprehensive document, um, in terms of covering all the aspects of sizing, um, the new building options as we move forward through the process. And it will be used as a tool, um, to inform. And then eventually this will be part of what, um, this committee is approving, uh, for submission, um, both, um, at the end of the PDP phase, um, where you're going to have a bunch of different options and then eventually at the end of the PSR, will be one chosen option for a space summary as well as sort of the designs that go along with it.

[John Falco]: So where are the non-covered MSBAs? I think you briefly meant like in that other category.

[Matt Rice]: It's going to be in the other category, just down towards.

[Unidentified]: So this is not the full list of others.

[Matt Rice]: Oh, no, no, no. There's actually no detail in here. We've condensed it. It's four or five pages, actually, and it'll grow very detailed as we get into sort of looking at all the administrative offices and that type of thing. Yeah, we tried to simplify it. We didn't do a great job here in terms of what it is visually. It's just a very tough thing to distill down to a very manageable piece of information.

[Matt Gulino]: You'll also see non-reimbursable throughout the sheet as we exceed their allotted space potentially.

[Kimberly Talbot]: Yeah, so when, this is the document that I will always be, that I'll be working in, and so this is the phase that I live in Excel, and the way that we'll try to track what is reimbursed space as part of the MSBA's template. Those will be line items that will be in white. And then there will be line items in yellow to denote the spaces that are not typically part of the MSBA template. Just because it's not part of the template does not mean that it won't be reimbursed. It's just a matter of, you know, discussion with the NSP. And then, again, the way that we populate this, and this is gonna be sheets and sheets of space. The way that we populate this is, you know, after downloading all of what we've heard with the programming meetings, doing curriculum analysis on sections that you're running now, number of students that you have, and projecting that out to the, uh, proposed enrollment, um, and then looking at the educational plan, looking at the visioning, all of that, um, we, uh, are kind of still into space and numbers. Are there questions before we move on from the space?

[Maria D'Orsi]: Just a clarification with, um, like some of the CTE programs, it's my understanding that they're larger now than they would be allowed and still Um do you clarify the difference between like if let's say auto tech is larger right now than um what would be allowed in the new build and it if there's renovations done and how does that affect the total square footage again like this?

[Kimberly Talbot]: I wasn't clear on that. Well first thing is that we don't actually know how big any of these spaces are because we just don't we don't have any square footage so it's hard for me to have a sense of really how are they actually bigger than what MSBA would allow? We just have no sense right now because we don't have the existing square footages. Okay, but let's hypothesize or say they're not.

[Maria D'Orsi]: How did that play out in total square footage that is allowed by the MSBA?

[Matt Rice]: So I think if we're renovating existing space and sort of keeping it in place, generally that larger footprint, if we're not modifying it, is going to be acceptable. We're going to have to go through a conversation with the MSBA just to explain that, but there's a lot of logic that will say, yes, you can keep that existing footprint of space, even if you're improving it, renovating it on the interior, in terms of just maintaining that and moving it forward. If we're building new, then we're going to be tied back a little bit more to those DESI guidelines that are going to specify how big the program is going to be. But the size of the new program, if we're building it new, the new space if we're building it new, It's tied specifically to the projected enrollment and the number of students that would need to be accommodated within any of the Chapter 74 spaces at one time. And that's going to be true for both the related classrooms as well as sort of a primary shop space for any particular program. And so what we need to do is also we've been doing as part of the programming meetings is understanding what is that maximum number of students that might be in a shop space and also thinking about that moving forward We also talked about the fact that a lot of the shops are considering bringing an additional staff member instructor, right? And so if you go from one to two, or if you're going from two to three, it's usually done so that there's additional students that can be accommodated in the program because the program is growing and it's popular and it has a lot of positive aspects to it, but we need to then make sure that the space can support sort of that anticipated growth as well. So I think that's when where you're saying that we really need to understand both what the existing square footage is by doing that measurement process. We have to couple that with understanding sort of the projection for that particular program. And so I guess we were having the discussions in our programming meeting, right? That's really why we were asking to get that understanding. In the not too distant future, I would say like in the next week or so, we should start to get a sense of like what the space summary is starting to reflect. And it's not gonna be right after the first pass. We're gonna have some back and forths to understand sort of what we come up with initially, and then sort of whether or not that meshes with sort of all the space programming discussions that we've been having as well. That was a long answer. I'm not sure if I completely got to your... Okay, and we can certainly talk about it a little bit more as we go.

[Unidentified]: Is there any opportunity for us to see that sort of living document, or is it sort of to be smeared out when we get to a certain point?

[Kimberly Talbot]: It is a highly complicated document with lots of things tied to every cell. So I do not like to give a live version.

[Unidentified]: I think it's almost my concept, your question, you know, where things are. So I believe that we are scheduled at the next SBC meeting to go over the draft.

[Kimberly Talbot]: Um, that's perfect. Okay.

[Matt Rice]: And we'll share the detailed version in advance, because again, like PowerPoint is not the correct sort of medium to be reviewing this in. So you'll want to be able, I know there are a lot of people here that are probably interested in getting into the granular line items to understand them, whether CTE spaces or the rest of the building. So we'll be have that distributed as a live Excel version, not Excel, but like a PDF version.

[Kimberly Talbot]: Even within our office, I pass for protected, not because I don't trust people, but, you know, accidentally.

[Luke Preisner]: I mean, there is a great point about interfering with the process unintentionally. So there will be protections in place, but like generally speaking for data rights, anything digital produced for this project, ultimately is the property of the district. Is that a true statement? So at some point we can have access to any documents produced, you know, for the benefit of the project.

[Kimberly Talbot]: Yeah, I just want to make sure that I can't share the live file that I'm working on.

[Unidentified]: You don't want to start an active process.

[Jenny Graham]: Yeah, and all of these deliverables will be loaded on the project website so that if people want to go in and dive deep and spend many, many hours reading contracts or whatever it is, all of that will be available as it's completed on the project website. And that website, you all got a link to that. And we asked if you had any immediate feedback. Otherwise, we will turn that. We will turn over the prior site to the new site shortly and make a broader announcement. So everyone knows that they can go there to find the documents that we're looking for.

[Libby Brown]: Ready? I'm sorry if you said this, but I missed it. I'm curious about sometimes programming like flexible spaces or collaboration, they are wider corridors. It's hard to get into a program because they're more like, they're not quite like core academic. Do you get to, but they also don't want them to like fall into circulation that's not efficient. Do you get to add that as a programmed element in this or does MSB, how do they treat that?

[Kimberly Talbot]: So it depends on what the space is. some purpose-built flexible space like a larger instructional space or some other rooms that are not assigned. They're not meant to be assigned. They're meant for educators or people within the building to be able to use on like a sign-out basis. Things like that we will put into, and actually the MSBA does allow for some of that, like breakout rooms, small group rooms, as well as the larger instructional space. So MSB does carry some of those things. If we want to add some more, like hold on to a couple more things, then we also need to make sure that the educational plan justifies a need for that. So when we say that We've been saying this in all of our programming meetings that the educational plan really does explain the reasoning behind all of the space that we're including in the program. And then other things like the wider corners or kind of informal breakout spaces. Yeah, so those informal breakout spaces, that 1.5 grossing factor actually is enough to be able to bring us, to allow for those types of spaces.

[Libby Brown]: But will that be in the, in the grossing factors?

[Kimberly Talbot]: Yeah. Yeah. But if we do really feel like, well, you know, we'd really love like a, you know, like a visual arts or performing arts commons, like a small commons or something. If, you know, if we can justify it in the educational plan, then we can see if we can try to incorporate that into, into the space summary. It's also going to be, you know, a discussion, negotiation kind of with the MSBA, you know, to tell them, yes, we do need this. And it kind of goes 50-50, like whether they'll say, okay, or no, put it back in the gross impact. Yeah. It's great. Yeah.

[Matt Gulino]: It really emphasizes the importance of the end plan.

[Unidentified]: Yeah. is not letting me touch it.

[Adam Hurtubise]: It's not letting Brian touch it.

[Matt Gulino]: One last slide. Just quickly, next steps. So next month, the 22nd is our building committee meeting. We'll have, well, between now and then, just some of the deliverables that we're working on. We talked about the programming and how the last day was today for that. We could be holding the educational envisioning programs as well. And then the existing conditions survey. So we're hoping to have a draft of that space summary that we kind of just walk through and then a draft of the existing conditions report as well, which again, will take some time to pull together, but we'll start getting some information over to the committee to start to review. So that will be our focus at the next meeting. Um, I apparently missed the January meeting completely. Uh, so we will be, uh, uh, that meeting on the ninth, uh, which is, I think why I highlighted this one was, uh, kind of, which again, we'd probably have to move, uh, that school committee. Uh, but this will be kind of the first. Like kind of big draft of the, of the, of the PDP. uh, to, to kind of go through what we should have our, our comparative costs, um, at that point as well. Um, so in early February is when we'll start to see, uh, the bigger document and hopefully, you know, we'll be walking you through it, uh, up to that point. So it's, um, you know, less daunting because it is a big document. So, um, so yeah, we'll, we'll clean up the SBC meeting dates, uh, make sure we have all those correct. get those out to everybody. And just last on here, the end goal is approval of the PDP document on February 23rd. So that's the kind of end goal for the PDP phase. That is it.

[Jenny Graham]: Okay, are there any last questions?

[Luke Preisner]: So I've got a question. I was hoping it'd be addressed Um, and I think it was in part when we talked about, uh, the, uh, the four focus groups and the boards going around. But, uh, one of the things I know that is the timeline for those, uh, um, groups, uh, is a series of four meetings that concluded in 27. Um, and, and so due to that long timeline, I don't think that may be the forum for answering this question. So. analyses of alternatives. There are some basic decisions that need to be made, and those decisions will drive costs. You know, there's undeniable trade-offs between capability and cost, and there's going to be a lot of small choices, but there's also going to be some pretty big ones. And, you know, the couple that kind of float around in my mind at this point in time, where we're still kind of developing concepts, is the choice between kind of a low sprawling structure versus a taller, more concentrated structure on a smaller footprint. There are trade-offs and, you know, the analysis of what's best, you know, that needs to be carried out in some form. And the question is, are the groups that we signed up for those forums or is it decision that's internal to SMMA and brief to us. Walk us through, if you can, briefly. I know we're running kind of over, and so there's not a lot of time, but I do want to get a sense of when those big decisions that will drive big costs are made.

[Matt Rice]: Certainly this building committee is the one that is going to be making those decisions. So they will not be sort of making those decisions for anyone as part of the process. In terms of when those decisions happen, the PDP phase really is not when anything is set. So we can look at least out until June 25th, right? Of 2026 in terms of when the final decision needs to be made in terms of what direction to move forward with. and having sort of vetted all the pros and cons. There's a little bit more time that people are not necessarily focused on the February 23rd date of next year as a time where we have to make those decisions. The advisory teams are really intended to look through their particular lens at some of these options that are put together and then make recommendations back to this committee in terms of what the preference is. And so that, That particular activity probably happens during the PSR phase, the second portion of the feasibility. In terms of looking at the different options that are put on the table that we're going to carry through the PDP and include in the PDP, that will probably actually happen initially during that mysterious January meeting in terms of having an initial look at them to be able to provide some input and to provide the type of commentary that you're suggesting in terms of difference of height and width of the building. We'll talk about different options for phasing, different extents of new construction versus additional renovation. And we'll try to put as many of those on the table as possible. It's very typical for there not to just be three or four options in the PDP phase, but we've gone up to 18 options sometimes. when there's a lot of variables. And I would say that there are a lot of variables here, right? There's a lot of program pieces that there's going to be a lot of discussion on that we know are valued by the community. And we want to talk about how are those going to be pulled forward? Are they renovation spaces? Are they new construction spaces? And what does that mean? So we want to look at all those permutations. And I think it's going to be right at the beginning of the year where we're going to start putting all those on the table and just make some choices about which ones are going to get carried forward for study. And then the PSR phase, we really get into the detail of understanding, okay, what are the priorities? And we'll start to vote as a committee here, which are the ones that move. And usually it's, there's like a shortlisting process where we start with the, let's say it's 18 and we pull it down to three or five, whatever sort of manageable is, just because it's tough to go from 18 to one, right? I think we want to talk through sort of where everyone's priorities are, because they're going to be a broad range, right? And at the end of the day, it needs to be a consensus agreement by this committee in terms of what gets suggested and moved forward.

[John Falco]: That's a related question to that. So I know we have to have at least three options for MSBA being legal. But if bringing up the code and meeting minimum energy and heating standards was $300 million more than a new building, does MSBA get to say that is not one of your options anymore? Could we literally pick any of the options? So you can pick any of the options.

[Matt Rice]: Matt has a good way of describing it. Do you want to go ahead? You had a good answer to that question during the programming meetings. I don't remember what was going to happen. I can sum it up. Essentially, the code repair option, it's never going to be more expensive than a new construction option or addition renovation, just given the square footage that are there. But the other thing about the code repair option It's never been selected for any MSBA project that we're aware of, partly because it won't meet the goals of the educational plan. And that's a key criteria. But the other reason is that MSBA won't participate in those costs. They won't contribute because it's not meeting the educational plan. So you're basically would just be making a choice to not meet your educational goals and to take all of the payment on for the community, for the city, right? And which is just, it's not a good, it's really, that option is meant more as a baseline to understand, okay, what is it, what is the cost of not doing anything, right? If we're just going to fix what we have here, and usually that's very telling in terms of looking at order of magnitude of cost for an overall project, because it's, you're going to be spending a few hundred million dollars to not really achieve your goals. That doesn't, doesn't make a lot of sense usually.

[SPEAKER_10]: And one footnote, if you stay with VA is watching, they will participate in a cost if it meets the educational plan, which is highly unlikely.

[Matt Rice]: Right. So that's the caveat. But it's very difficult to move the educational point. And the renovation phase, thank you, Jen, for clarifying.

[John Falco]: Thank you. That's very helpful. And knowing that we had these three options when I couldn't wrap my head around how we're just going to widen some doors and put in some elevators, like, oh, that's going to work.

[Kimberly Talbot]: It's information. If you had to live with this building until the end of time and you had to And this isn't even with escalation and took on projects bit by bit. It's just a frame.

[Adam Hurtubise]: Any other questions?

[Jenny Graham]: Is there a motion to adjourn?

[Unidentified]: So moved.

[Jenny Graham]: I can't. Seconded by Aaron. Okay. I'll call the roll. Jenny Graham. Yeah. Mayor Mungo Kern. Yes. Dr. Galusi? Yes. Marta Cabral? Yes. Libby Brown? Yes. Marissa Desmond is absent. Maria Dorsey is absent. Brian Hilliard? Yes. Tracy Keene is absent. Emily Lazzaro? Yes. Nicole Morell? Yes. Erin Olapade? Yes. Luke Kreisner?

[Unidentified]: Yes.

[Jenny Graham]: Joan Bowen? Yes. Ken Lord?

[Unidentified]: Yes.

[Jenny Graham]: 12 in the affirmative, zero in the negative.

Jenny Graham total time: 17.96 minutes total words: 1650	John Falco total time: 1.81 minutes total words: 170	Nicole Morell total time: 0.47 minutes total words: 67	Aaron Olapade total time: 0.56 minutes total words: 62